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Thread: Does anyone think gun color is a determining factor in a court case?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Nakyak's Avatar
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    Would anyone stop carrying a spare mag or reloads for a firearm because a lawyer said not to, or because jury members are easily lead? After all, if you carry extra ammo, and you're not a cop, you're a ammo arsenal carrying blood thirsty killer?

    How about participating in online gun forums?

    How about carrying your firearm in an Alien Gear Holster? I mean, you must believe in Aliens, thus mentally unfit to carry a firearm in the first place.

    This all gets kind of silly when it is applied to every aspect of what someone might say in court IMO.
    Last edited by Nakyak; December 6th, 2017 at 08:19 AM.

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    Senior Member Mike1956's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakyak View Post
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    In the *don't give a jury any ammunition, even if it doesn't work*, would anyone have reservations about hiring this guy as a lawyer, considering he has a YouTube page, Tattoo sleeve, beard etc.?
    I know him personally and professionally, and would recommend him to anyone in need of a gun lawyer.
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” Isaac Asimov

  3. #33
    Senior Member chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakyak View Post
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    In the *don't give a jury any ammunition, even if it doesn't work*, would anyone have reservations about hiring this guy as a lawyer, considering he has a YouTube page, Tattoo sleeve, beard etc.?
    If the jury would have hang ups about the color of a gun, I am quite sure they would have a problem with a bearded, tattooed lawyer. If I ever need a defense lawyer he will be a clean cut well dressed normal looking guy or woman.
    Last edited by chuck; December 6th, 2017 at 10:47 AM.
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    Senior Member Sporadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakyak View Post
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    In the *don't give a jury any ammunition, even if it doesn't work*, would anyone have reservations about hiring this guy as a lawyer, considering he has a YouTube page, Tattoo sleeve, beard etc.?
    This (bold face text) would seem to indicate appearance affects your decision process ... as it does for most of us. So non standard (as imaged by the general public) looking firearms my aid in the perception manipulation of a jury by lawyers. You can google "Mesa AZ police officer obscene inscription" and see a real world example ... The court recently excluded it from trial but ... could have been a tilt factory if used.

    We (humans) demand facts but make most of our decisions are based on perception ... vis a vis Donald J.
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    Senior Member Nakyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sporadic View Post
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    This (bold face text) would seem to indicate appearance affects your decision process ... as it does for most of us. So non standard (as imaged by the general public) looking firearms my aid in the perception manipulation of a jury by lawyers. You can google "Mesa AZ police officer obscene inscription" and see a real world example ... The court recently excluded it from trial but ... could have been a tilt factory if used.

    We (humans) demand facts but make most of our decisions are based on perception ... vis a vis Donald J.
    Agree. The problem I see is it goes way too far in some cases. Color of gun seems like color of suit. I'm not going to pick my lawyer based on what color he wears.

  6. #36
    Senior Member GRCarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakyak View Post
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    Agree. The problem I see is it goes way too far in some cases. Color of gun seems like color of suit. I'm not going to pick my lawyer based on what color he wears.
    Generally, I'll agree with you. I doubt the color of the gun would matter, although, as a guy, I'm not sure I would want to explain why my hand guns were pink and I had my AR15 keracoted pink. But, I doubt that the prosecutor would bring it up.

    I would want my lawyer to make a good impression on the jury. Color of suit, not so important, as long as it's not pink or something like that. One of the better criminal defense attorneys around here tends to dress more casually. Still wears a suit and such, but, is often hurriedly getting his tie on as he enters court. It's sort of a joke. But, he is taken seriously by everyone due to his ability and demeanor. More than some who walk in in their very expensive suits.
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    I would say that if the Prosecutor can successfully influence a jury over the color of a gun I would say that the defense counsel isn't worth a flip. I would be more worried about inflammatory bumper stickers on my car than the color of my firearm. that's just me

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    Senior Member Nakyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sporadic View Post
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    This (bold face text) would seem to indicate appearance affects your decision process ... as it does for most of us. So non standard (as imaged by the general public) looking firearms my aid in the perception manipulation of a jury by lawyers. You can google "Mesa AZ police officer obscene inscription" and see a real world example ... The court recently excluded it from trial but ... could have been a tilt factory if used.

    We (humans) demand facts but make most of our decisions are based on perception ... vis a vis Donald J.
    Are you talking about this guy?

    http://www.azfamily.com/story/369858...autostart=true

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck View Post
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    Think about what the bearded wonder in the video is saying. Because a weapon, could be a gun, car, airplane, knife, stick or whatever, just because it is of a different color could be the deciding factor in proving that a person is guilty of a crime. What does this say about you and I..........we sit on the juries.
    Unfortunately, some of us never make a jury because of our law enforcement backgrounds. That isn't saying I want to be on a jury, because I do not, but I will never end up on one. What is even worse, many intelligent and productive people do everything they can to stay away from jury duty and are normally successful in doing so. Most juries are not made up of peers, but rather people who have nothing better to do.

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    Senior Member Preacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakyak View Post
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    In the *don't give a jury any ammunition, even if it doesn't work*, would anyone have reservations about hiring this guy as a lawyer, considering he has a YouTube page, Tattoo sleeve, beard etc.?
    What would matter to me in hiring him would be how many such cases, if any, has he successfully defended. I would also like to have a conversation with him and ask him how many cases of self-defense had he ever even witnessed that were determined by the color of the gun or what accessories or markings were on the gun. Either a shoot is good or it is questionable. I can't see a jury convicting a citizen in a good shoot because the prosecution could prove malicious intent strictly on the color of the gun. Does anyone here know of such a case or cases?
    A man, without force, is without the essential dignity of humanity. Human nature is so constituted, that it cannot honor a helpless man, although it can pity him; and even this it cannot do long, if the signs of power do not arise.

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    Asst. Administrator DogWalksWithMe's Avatar
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    If a prosecutor wants to make an issue in a shooting, then anything and everything including gun color could be part of making an issue. For that matter, so could being a member of a firearms forum.

    That said, If I owned a baby blue 55 Chevy, I might get a carry piece to match. SCCY makes some that might match nicely.

    About 4 years ago, I remember a sign in Portland Oregon stating that a new shipment of pink Glocks had arrived.

    I do recall a case where an officer used his private AR-15 (IIRC), and the engraving in the dust cover was made into a point of argument in court.
    If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

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    Senior Member Ghost1958's Avatar
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    In a word NO.

    You are admitting you shot the bg. That can reasonably lead to his death.

    It won't matter gun color, caliber, name of ammo etc etc.


    You meant to shoot and the gun fired. If the you had justifiable reason to shoot that's it and that's all.
    Odd how most folks who say they support the Constitution as written ,,,,,,,,,,,,really don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
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    In a word NO.

    You are admitting you shot the bg. That can reasonably lead to his death.

    It won't matter gun color, caliber, name of ammo etc etc.


    You meant to shoot and the gun fired. If the you had justifiable reason to shoot that's it and that's all.
    And that’s about as true as it can get on that subject...
    " But wisdom is shown to be right by what results from it"
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    Curmudgeon OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogWalksWithMe View Post
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    I do recall a case where an officer used his private AR-15 (IIRC), and the engraving in the dust cover was made into a point of argument in court.
    Actually, I think the judge disallowed that as "evidence."
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    Senior Member Nakyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
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    What would matter to me in hiring him would be how many such cases, if any, has he successfully defended. I would also like to have a conversation with him and ask him how many cases of self-defense had he ever even witnessed that were determined by the color of the gun or what accessories or markings were on the gun. Either a shoot is good or it is questionable. I can't see a jury convicting a citizen in a good shoot because the prosecution could prove malicious intent strictly on the color of the gun. Does anyone here know of such a case or cases?
    I don't know of any such cases.

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