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Thread: SUB2000 Impressions

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    Senior Member Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    SUB2000 Impressions

    Hi All,

    Just wondering who-all has a SUB2000, and your impressions of it.

    Also interested in any firsthand comparisons between the original and the Gen 2's.

    TIA

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    Senior Member Blackhawkgirl's Avatar
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    I am subscribing to this thread, because I am also interested in hearing what others have to say. I saw a Gen 2 in Atlanta last year, I am thinking of getting one that fits the Beretta mags since I have a bunch of those. Conversely, with Rugers new PC Carbine take-down rifle that takes my Ruger American mags, it will be a toss up between the two.
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    Senior Member Lionround's Avatar
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    I do a pretty good impression of Jack Nicholson and a not bad Johnny Carson. My SUB 2000 is really bad and needs work.
    Memphis -- No. 2 on the list of most crime ridden cities in America.
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    Iíll speak up in a few weeks. I had one follow me home the other day... a gen 2 9mm that uses G17 mags. Wonít have a chance to shoot it for awhile due to travel and family medical stuff, but so far it seems to be built okay.
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    I have a first generation I bought new in 2005. Mine takes G19 mags, which was hard to come by at the time. It has a shorter grip than the ones that take G17 mags, but allows me to use G19 mags as well as longer mags. (I do have some happy sticks for it.) I only have 400 rounds through it, so I'm hardly an expert.

    I find the ergonomics odd, to say the least. I have difficulty getting my head into a position to see the sights. YMMV. Other than that, no problems.

    The good: It really does fold into a small, light package. And it takes Glock mags, or possibly those for some other sidearm you carry.

    The bad: Its still a pistol caliber. Too big to carry as a sidearm, and too underpowered to serve as a light rifle. Not easy to add a dot sight or a scope, although it can be done.

    In comparison: For a larger but still compact light rifle in 5.56, I have an SU-16 with a 1-4 scope. For more horsepower in a somewhat larger, heavier compact rifle, a folder AK is hard to beat.

    Conclusion: Ya pays your money, and ya takes your choice! With my options, the Sub 2000 is more of a curiosity than a useful tool.

    John W in SC

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    Senior Member Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Oooops! I guess I failed to follow up on this thread very well!

    I bought a Gen 2 9mm SUB2000, and was just kinda looking for others' impressions. I had been looking at them for a while, but the version that takes M&P 9 mags seemed a little hard to find at a decent price. I finally found one!

    So, MY impressions:

    This is a really slick little range toy! I'm impressed with the workmanship, and it sure folds into a nice little package for a backpack, or under-the-seat stowage in the car. Heck, you could almost fit it into a [big] coat pocket! I've run about 200 rounds of various FMJ, TMJ, and JHP's through it so far with nary a hiccup. Ammo included bullet weights from 115 to 147 gr., including about 1/2 box of 147 gr. Ranger 'T's, and a box of aluminum-cased Blazers, and I'm not really a fan of anything but brass-cased ammo.

    Accuracy was outstanding at about 35 yards. As @John W in SC mentioned, the ergonomics of the carbine are not it's strong point! My only real 'complaint' is that I can't get a good cheek weld due to the geometry of the gun, combined with the fact I'm a pretty big guy. With muffs on, forget it! I had to switch to earplugs to be able to use the sights at all. You can't really put higher sights or optics on the top rail without interfering with being able to fold it up. Even with that handicap, though, my 6" steel targets were dead meat at 35 yards! I'm thinking maybe a small laser on the bottom rail, or an optic side-mounted on the left-side M-lock rail would be a worthwhile addition.

    There was a little bit of a learning curve with the takedown/field strip and reassembly, but I got past that in short order, and I'm comfortable with it now. If you should happen to get one of these, read the manual carefully BEFORE you attempt to field strip it. Important lesson learned! Specifically, DO NOT attempt to take it down without it being cocked, and do not drop the hammer while it's disassembled!

    In summary - I love this little carbine! Wish I'd bought one a long time ago!

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    Senior Member 9UC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawkgirl View Post
    I am subscribing to this thread, because I am also interested in hearing what others have to say. I saw a Gen 2 in Atlanta last year, I am thinking of getting one that fits the Beretta mags since I have a bunch of those. Conversely, with Rugers new PC Carbine take-down rifle that takes my Ruger American mags, it will be a toss up between the two.
    The above is a good part of why I use this and another "all brands" thread and the conversations on 9mm carbines peaks my interest as I'm giving consideration to replacing my Inland M1 Carbine with a 9mm as part of my consolidating ammo to my 2 primary calibers.
    ✟✟✟ "...and HE said..."he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one". Luke 22:36
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    This is great rifle but I'm a not big fan of "very modern" rifles. I prefer good old rifles

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    Senior Member jmf552's Avatar
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    As many of you know, Grant Cunningham is a gunsmith, tactical trainer, gun writer and gun blogger who takes a very down to Earth approach to his topics, as opposed to the approach of "enthusiasts." He also does a lot of research on his opinions and uses a systematic "emergency management" approach, an approach he has a degree and some professional experience in.

    He writes that pistol caliber carbines are good in-home defensive tools due to their accuracy, ease of handling, extremely light recoil and less muzzle blast (relative to handguns and rifle caliber long guns). He has not found most of them to be all that effective out of doors for non-LEO, non-military, defensive purposes. They lack the range, and accuracy at long range, that a rifle caliber delivers. Exceptions are the heavier pistol calibers, .357 and .44 magnums, which rise to the level of adequate.

    I am still really attracted to the SUB-2000, though. If I were going for one, I would opt for the .40 version and I would not worry about the mags being compatible with any handgun I was carrying. I would probably go for the Glock mags, just due to aftermarket availability. (I don't own a Glock and don't plan to.)
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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