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Thread: Handgun Rights

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    Handgun Rights

    I believe in all gun rights but I believe the strongest in handgun rights. As it is, handguns are one of the most regulated of guns. From what I know to be able to buy a handgun in a state you have to be a resident of the state, unlike with long guns which you can sometimes buy out of state. Also, in many states if you buy handguns you have to go through extra steps that you don't have to go with when you buy a long gun. In PA for instance to buy a long gun you just have to fill out the 4473 form and go through the background check. If you're buying a handgun in addition to all that you have to fill out an extra form and your handgun purchase gets registered with the state. Personally I wish handguns were less regulated as they are one of my favorite types of guns. As it is though, the gun control crowd doesn't seem to be focusing so much on handguns like they were back during the Clinton administration. Instead they're focusing on those so called "assault weapons" which are just regular semi automatic rifles that might look like they would be used in warfare, although anybody familiar with them knows they aren't.

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    Unrepentant chocoholic ShooterGranny's Avatar
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    They "don't seem to be focusing on"......key words. They want to get ALL guns gone from legal ownership. They grab whatever makes a headline for the day and scream about it.

    The existing laws are all wrong, wrong, wrong. Guns shouldn't be regulated at all. Long or short. Size should not matter!
    If you think changes need to be made - get out and DO SOMETHING positive!

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    There is no extra form nor any registration with the state here in Alabama with a handgun purchase. Alabama will also accept your CC permit in lieu of calling in the 4473, you still have to fill out the 4473 though. We also donít have a waiting period for any gun purchase.


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    Asst. Administrator ccw9mm's Avatar
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    I suppose a fair read on why the destroyers go after certain arms instead of others (that is, handguns first), is simply because they're concealable and far more easily brought into a situation without forewarning.

    Of course, any of the defilements go against the spirit of the BOR in general, and the explicit, express prohibition stated in the 2A. Let alone the essential historical basis for where the BOR protections came from (in 16th/17th Century England). Sealed with the understanding of just how strongly reviled standing armies were, given the dire threat of tyranny they represented. Though, the majority of citizens in the U.S. have, I think, largely forgotten where the birthright comes from, and what practical protections we ourselves provide to the whole house of cards.

    It's a prohibition on fiddling. It has no exceptions. It indicates why it's so vital to have a well-armed citizenry, and it flatly protects the citizenry with respect to ownership (and by extension acquisition/sale/possession) as well as carrying. All arms a person could conceivably obtain, own, possess, potentially carry. (Irrespective of whether a person ultimately opted to carry/bear/haul such arms at all ... as with, say, a tank or a ship with cannon/guns or similar.) The limits of such tied strictly to one's behavior and one's material direct threat to others (ie, via statutes covering murder, robbery, assault and the like).

    Of course, to get largely safe again will take SCOTUS pulling their collective finger out and recognizing what the BOR stands for, what the prohibitions exist for, and how strongly those prohibitions are with respect to fear-based modes of control of citizens. Until all such laws/regulations get wiped from the books at all levels, we're under direct threat of loss of these liberties. But that's gonna take a severe turn of heart and increase in intellectual integrity on the part of each and every court justice ... at all levels, starting with SCOTUS. Sadly, I don't expect to see that within my lifetime. The self-interest of the authoritarians is simply too strong for any such thing to be allowed. Except wrested from them by force, when it comes to that. Which I suspect it will, in the end.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; September 13th, 2018 at 01:46 AM. Reason: dates, correction
    Cardinal principle: Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Philosophy: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
    On the RKBA: Most of what you think you know about our Constitution is wrong -- Michael Badnarik

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterGranny View Post
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    They "don't seem to be focusing on"......key words. They want to get ALL guns gone from legal ownership. They grab whatever makes a headline for the day and scream about it.

    The existing laws are all wrong, wrong, wrong. Guns shouldn't be regulated at all. Long or short. Size should not matter!
    All guns? Does that include single shot rifles? Break open shotguns? Muzzle loading guns? BB guns? Believe it or not in some states BB guns are classified and regulated like real firearms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
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    There is no extra form nor any registration with the state here in Alabama with a handgun purchase. Alabama will also accept your CC permit in lieu of calling in the 4473, you still have to fill out the 4473 though. We also don’t have a waiting period for any gun purchase.


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    I see. Well from what I know AL is one of the more gun friendly states. PA is quite gun friendly too although it can use some improvement. As I said you do have to fill out an extra form when buying a handgun and your purchase is state registered. There are some other ways in which PA can improve to become more gun friendly too. There is no waiting period for guns in PA except for when purchasing off the internet, as I often like to do, in which case there will be the waiting period, the time it takes for the gun to arrive at the FFL.

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    Don't fool yourself they are completely focused on taking all guns period. Luckily in Missouri we don't have to do anything different for a handgun than a long gun to purchase one. Walk in, pick out one you want, present ID, fill out form, wait a few minutes for approval then pay and out the door with a brand new gun.

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    Senior Member nlyric's Avatar
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    Is it federal that you have to be 21 to buy a handgun and 18 to buy a rifle. Or is that just Texas. Hadn't thought about that. I'm thinking it's federal.
    Pardon me, Sir, for this difference of opinion. my personal interest in such questions is entirely extinct; but not my wishes for the longest possible continuance of our government on itís pure principles.

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    Senior Member Arejay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterGranny View Post
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    They "don't seem to be focusing on"......key words. They want to get ALL guns gone from legal ownership. They grab whatever makes a headline for the day and scream about it.

    The existing laws are all wrong, wrong, wrong. Guns shouldn't be regulated at all. Long or short. Size should not matter!
    You are correct. An easy, simple Google search will turn up enough quotes to prove what their ultimate goal is.

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    Senior Member RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photon Guy View Post
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    I see. Well from what I know AL is one of the more gun friendly states. PA is quite gun friendly too although it can use some improvement. As I said you do have to fill out an extra form when buying a handgun and your purchase is state registered. There are some other ways in which PA can improve to become more gun friendly too. There is no waiting period for guns in PA except for when purchasing off the internet, as I often like to do, in which case there will be the waiting period, the time it takes for the gun to arrive at the FFL.
    Although your post has been one of thought provoking; may I kindly ask you to rethink your questions?
    Re-think for yourself if you desire to be a defender of the 2A.

    Questioning which firearms are more regulated or which state is more friendly; tends to leave the door open
    to a assumption that continues to erode the veracity of the 2A.

    CW9MM had a great post above; he and I, and I am confident others, are students of history (i.e) We read everything we can concerning this issue from the right of self defense which pre-existed the written word; to England from whence sprang many of our laws; especially the 2A/ BOR in general all the way to current SCOTUS rulings.

    Posing questions concerning states rights or firearm regulation is IMO; counter productive. It often leads to "my state is better than your state."..or "you should move to a more firearm friendly state" Bragging about how we carry more freely here than there is a insidious path to more erosion and "a house divided against itself."

    If we look at a the simple words "THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE" contained in the 2A; we begin to understand and ask questions that are VERY relevant.

    1) What right or rights?
    2) Who's rights?
    3) What limits?
    4) Was the right granted or assumed or is it a natural expression of man?

    Understanding, defining and studying the 2A or any of the original 10 amendments; will generally lead the critical thinker to one inescapable conclusion. When this conclusion is reached, one finds themselves in a powerful position to defend the 2A; rather than be led astray into minutia arguments not germane to the subject of rights. Education is a powerful ally.

    In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Supreme Court ruled that, "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence.
    This ^^^ is where defenders of the 2A live.
    "A covenant not to defend myself from force, by force, is always void"...Thomas Hobbes

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    Senior Member oldnfat's Avatar
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    SG I like the you think. " Long or short. Size should not matter." Rifles or handguns.
    We must all hang together amigos, or we will all hang separately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnfat View Post
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    SG I like the you think. " Long or short. Size should not matter." Rifles or handguns.
    I agree. Although I do generally like handguns more and if I had to choose I would rather see less regulations on handguns and more regulations on long guns than vice versa, ideally I want less regulations on both, but you're right, as long as we're not talking about vehicle mounted artillery size should not matter.

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    Senior Member Kennydale's Avatar
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    Iím having a hard time wrapping myself in the belief HANDGUNS NEED SPECIAL RIGHTS . Or that the rights carriers of long guns should be forgotten . Here in Texas the open carry or a rifle has been very legal for a long time. Open Carry of Handgun is just recently !

    I hate to see artificial division among gun owners . They are all tools with specific purposes and they have inherent limitations! I love my Glocks and Rugers. One day I want a AR. Or a pistol carbine .


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    Gun culture at its best is rooted in a desire to protect, and especially to protect the people we love-Rachel Lu (University of St. Thomas)

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    Asst. Administrator ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennydale View Post
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    I’m having a hard time wrapping myself in the belief HANDGUNS NEED SPECIAL RIGHTS . Or that the rights carriers of long guns should be forgotten . Here in Texas the open carry or a rifle has been very legal for a long time. Open Carry of Handgun is just recently !
    Among banners, IMO it has hinged on the comparative concealability, ease of carry, and ease with which a would-be assailant can get inside someone's defenses. Which would explain why concealment has historically been a point of contention and stigma, why it's often been the first thing gone after. Someone with a rifle, you can often see "a mile" away, whereas it's hard to see someone packing a sidearm until that person is quite close.

    I wish it weren't the case that so many would-be banners promote such differences. It's merely a tool, like any other. Most will use it as it's intended, while some will invariably come along through abuse to give it a bad name and spoil the concept for everyone. Sadly, we tolerate defilement of the Constitution's strict prohibitions, whenever the mood suits us to look the other way.
    Cardinal principle: Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Philosophy: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
    On the RKBA: Most of what you think you know about our Constitution is wrong -- Michael Badnarik

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennydale View Post
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    I’m having a hard time wrapping myself in the belief HANDGUNS NEED SPECIAL RIGHTS . Or that the rights carriers of long guns should be forgotten . Here in Texas the open carry or a rifle has been very legal for a long time. Open Carry of Handgun is just recently !

    I hate to see artificial division among gun owners . They are all tools with specific purposes and they have inherent limitations! I love my Glocks and Rugers. One day I want a AR. Or a pistol carbine .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Well lets face it, usually there are more regulations on handguns than there are on long guns. Maybe not so much in Texas but Im talking nationwide, in general handguns have more regulations and restrictions.

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