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Thread: This case should be dropped.

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    This case should be dropped.

    Actually should never have been charged.

    If someone shoots at you, LE or not, you have the right to fire back.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.owe...-shooting/amp/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
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    Actually should never have been charged.

    If someone shoots at you, LE or not, you have the right to fire back.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.owe...-shooting/amp/
    agree

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    This was a complete boondoggle. Should not be any charges filed. It was just a really unfortunate incident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by From the article
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    The KSP report from Whittaker states that “after speaking with Ofc. Morris, Turley and all the witnesses involved, plus after gathering all evidence, it appears this incident was an unfortunate set of circumstances for all parties involved. The officer, while in pursuit of of a fleeing suspect, encountered an armed individual, who was protecting his person and property. When the officer encountered Mr. Turley, who pointed a firearm at him, reacted like any trained law enforcement officer would do in that situation. Mr. Turley reacted like most individuals would after being shot at.”
    Does sound like a bad situation with bad choices on the part of the LEO.

    Rule #1 for folks, when considering acting in a self-defense situation: believe with all your heart, even to the point of knowing for a fact, that the situation is what it is.

    In the situation as described, it appears a call went out on LE radio that there was a suspect in the vicinity; he hears some noise in a back yard nearby; he demands that person show hands and comply with the orders; he fires upon the person once he sees the person has a holstered sidearm on his person, though no apparent threatening behavior seems to have existed at the time; and the ultimate claim is that the LEO "had no choice" but to fire upon the person.

    Sounds like a cluster, to me. But then, I'm sure we don't have 100% of all the details at this point.

    Assuming the Grand Jury failed to have the report in hand prior to handing down an indictment, it sounds like the thing to do would be to have the Grand Jury review the details known to-date and reconsider the case. Hard to believe that the GJ would indict a person prior to the initial investigative report even being completed (if that's how it went down).
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
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    Does sound like a bad situation with bad choices on the part of the LEO.

    Rule #1 for folks, when considering acting in a self-defense situation: believe with all your heart, even to the point of knowing for a fact, that the situation is what it is.

    In the situation as described, it appears a call went out on LE radio that there was a suspect in the vicinity; he hears some noise in a back yard nearby; he demands that person show hands and comply with the orders; he fires upon the person once he sees the person has a holstered sidearm on his person, though no apparent threatening behavior seems to have existed at the time; and the ultimate claim is that the LEO "had no choice" but to fire upon the person.

    Sounds like a cluster, to me. But then, I'm sure we don't have 100% of all the details at this point.

    Assuming the Grand Jury failed to have the report in hand prior to handing down an indictment, it sounds like the thing to do would be to have the Grand Jury review the details known to-date and reconsider the case. Hard to believe that the GJ would indict a person prior to the initial investigative report even being completed (if that's how it went down).
    The GJ did not have the KSP report..

    Did not hear from either man.
    Morris fired first at a distance of about 4 feet. And missed.
    . Turley not knowing who was firing at him fired as he fell.

    KSP investigator early on in this mess said both men had a right to fire.

    However Turley has OPD by the short hairs if they can't fault him for firing back.
    That's why this was not dropped in Week after it happened.
    Morris had no reason to fire on man in his own backyard who Morris knew was not the man he was after.
    Personally I hope after Turly charges are dropped he sues OPD and, Morris for every penny either has.

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    Yep.
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    Someone's career is over with.........

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    The lawyers are circling...

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    Charges should be dropped against Turley no doubt. If the event is the way both Turley and Morris described it, I see it as unfortunate, but it is hard to blame Morris for firing. He had no way of knowing that Turley was hard of hearing, he had a gun and raised what I assume (it didn't say a gun was in it) his gun hand. If it happened that way, Morris did what he was trained to do.
    “Civil Wars happen when the victimized are armed. Genocide happens when they are not.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMcPhe44 View Post
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    Charges should be dropped against Turley no doubt. If the event is the way both Turley and Morris described it, I see it as unfortunate, but it is hard to blame Morris for firing. He had no way of knowing that Turley was hard of hearing, he had a gun and raised what I assume (it didn't say a gun was in it) his gun hand. If it happened that way, Morris did what he was trained to do.
    Morris had 90 days before being interviewed to cover his butt as best he can.

    He hasn't got a legal Statue to stand on.

    He had no right to demand to see the homeowners hands as he knew Tuley was not the suspect.

    A police officer in pursuit of a suspect can enter private property as long as he has not lost sight of that suspect or KNOWS the suspect entered private property.

    Morris had no legal grounds to even be looking in back yards once he lost sight of the person he was persuing.

    Im not aware of any academy that trains an officer to shoot a lawful homeowner not committing a crime for 1 being armed or two, moving his hand.

    Morris missed Tuley twice at a distance of 4 FEET.
    If he could not see any better than that he had no idea where Tuleys hand was.

    Tuley isn't under arrest right now because there's no evidence he wasn't justified in shooting and KY statute prohibits him being arrested unless there is.

    Tuley will walk. And though a CYA is being tried by OPD and KSP he will likely be socially secure after this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
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    Morris had 90 days before being interviewed to cover his butt as best he can.

    He hasn't got a legal Statue to stand on.

    He had no right to demand to see the homeowners hands as he knew Tuley was not the suspect.

    A police officer in pursuit of a suspect can enter private property as long as he has not lost sight of that suspect or KNOWS the suspect entered private property.

    Morris had no legal grounds to even be looking in back yards once he lost sight of the person he was persuing.

    Im not aware of any academy that trains an officer to shoot a lawful homeowner not committing a crime for 1 being armed or two, moving his hand.

    Morris missed Tuley twice at a distance of 4 FEET.
    If he could not see any better than that he had no idea where Tuleys hand was.

    Tuley isn't under arrest right now because there's no evidence he wasn't justified in shooting and KY statute prohibits him being arrested unless there is.

    Tuley will walk. And though a CYA is being tried by OPD and KSP he will likely be socially secure after this.
    Actually the article said the interview was 9 days after the shooting and I would suppose that Morris was in the hospital for a while, so that time is not all that unreasonable. I guess Turley, who shot back as he fell (according to the article) actually drew as he did a double back flip in self defense. If I was Morris I would want to see a hearing exam on this guy, because that is his only excuse for not obeying a LE command. If Morris did as the article stated he was doing what he was trained to do.

    Morris and Turley both said that he (Morris) was shining his light over the fence and Morris said he was standing on a bicycle. Not the typical approach of a criminal onto someone's property and if Morris did shine the light on his badge, as he said, this was also not typical and should have made Turley aware that he was a police officer, unless he was blind as well as deaf. Perhaps the reason Morris missed was because he standing balanced on a bicycle, but I bet he is glad he did.

    Fact is you don't know if Morris is lying and Turley is telling the truth and I don't either. You are eager to convict him because he is LE, I only want him convicted if he is guilty, which he may be guilty, but I don't believe he did anything intentionally. So to me, if he is guilty, I think the closest thing to a crime he could be convicted of is negligence. If he has a history of these type of encounters he should definitely be fired.

    Again per the facts as presented here Turley should have never been charged, as the KSP investigator suggested, and the DA and City should be held accountable for that, but if Morris is lying why didn't he go all in and claim Turley fired first? I would wait and see if this gets cleared up before I would come to a definite decision, but thanks to the testimony of both Turley and Morris it is pretty clear that Turley was defending himself from what he considered an unknown threat who fired first, unless of course he is the one lying.
    “Civil Wars happen when the victimized are armed. Genocide happens when they are not.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMcPhe44 View Post
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    Actually the article said the interview was 9 days after the shooting and I would suppose that Morris was in the hospital for a while, so that time is not all that unreasonable. I guess Turley, who shot back as he fell (according to the article) actually drew as he did a double back flip in self defense. If I was Morris I would want to see a hearing exam on this guy, because that is his only excuse for not obeying a LE command. If Morris did as the article stated he was doing what he was trained to do.

    Morris and Turley both said that he (Morris) was shining his light over the fence and Morris said he was standing on a bicycle. Not the typical approach of a criminal onto someone's property and if Morris did shine the light on his badge, as he said, this was also not typical and should have made Turley aware that he was a police officer, unless he was blind as well as deaf. Perhaps the reason Morris missed was because he standing balanced on a bicycle, but I bet he is glad he did.

    Fact is you don't know if Morris is lying and Turley is telling the truth and I don't either. You are eager to convict him because he is LE, I only want him convicted if he is guilty, which he may be guilty, but I don't believe he did anything intentionally. So to me, if he is guilty, I think the closest thing to a crime he could be convicted of is negligence. If he has a history of these type of encounters he should definitely be fired.

    Again per the facts as presented here Turley should have never been charged, as the KSP investigator suggested, and the DA and City should be held accountable for that, but if Morris is lying why didn't he go all in and claim Turley fired first? I would wait and see if this gets cleared up before I would come to a definite decision, but thanks to the testimony of both Turley and Morris it is pretty clear that Turley was defending himself from what he considered an unknown threat who fired first, unless of course he is the one lying.
    Morris admitted firing first.

    We do know because there is security video of it proving who fired first.

    If course Morris needed to be sure there wasn't hence 90 days while LE searched out any that existed.
    . That shows morris firing first. And that is the ONLY reason he didn't lie about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMcPhe44 View Post
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    Actually the article said the interview was 9 days after the shooting and I would suppose that Morris was in the hospital for a while, so that time is not all that unreasonable. I guess Turley, who shot back as he fell (according to the article) actually drew as he did a double back flip in self defense. If I was Morris I would want to see a hearing exam on this guy, because that is his only excuse for not obeying a LE command. If Morris did as the article stated he was doing what he was trained to do.

    Morris and Turley both said that he (Morris) was shining his light over the fence and Morris said he was standing on a bicycle. Not the typical approach of a criminal onto someone's property and if Morris did shine the light on his badge, as he said, this was also not typical and should have made Turley aware that he was a police officer, unless he was blind as well as deaf. Perhaps the reason Morris missed was because he standing balanced on a bicycle, but I bet he is glad he did.

    Fact is you don't know if Morris is lying and Turley is telling the truth and I don't either. You are eager to convict him because he is LE, I only want him convicted if he is guilty, which he may be guilty, but I don't believe he did anything intentionally. So to me, if he is guilty, I think the closest thing to a crime he could be convicted of is negligence. If he has a history of these type of encounters he should definitely be fired.

    Again per the facts as presented here Turley should have never been charged, as the KSP investigator suggested, and the DA and City should be held accountable for that, but if Morris is lying why didn't he go all in and claim Turley fired first? I would wait and see if this gets cleared up before I would come to a definite decision, but thanks to the testimony of both Turley and Morris it is pretty clear that Turley was defending himself from what he considered an unknown threat who fired first, unless of course he is the one lying.
    In addition. Shining a light at you badge at least in this state is NOT iding as a police officer.
    A badge can't be read more than a foot.
    Turly stated Morris was shining a light on the ground.

    Morris had lost sight of his suspect. There was no helicopter guiding him in the pursuit.

    He had lost his pursuit and had no legal grounds to be peeking over private fences into yards etc.

    Chase was over. Morris should have been back at his cruiser by then.


    On top of that it is perfectly legal to carry a loaded firearm in your hand in this state.

    Morris had no legal authority to demand to see Tully hands as he knew Tully was not his suspect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
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    Morris admitted firing first.

    We do know because there is security video of it proving who fired first.

    If course Morris needed to be sure there wasn't hence 90 days while LE searched out any that existed.
    . That shows morris firing first. And that is the ONLY reason he didn't lie about that.
    Where are you getting 90 days? The article says 9 days. Are you getting information elsewhere?

    "The interview between KSP and Morris was conducted nine days after the shooting had happened, Taylor said.

    “The officer had nine days before he was interviewed. How much information was in his possession?” Taylor asked. “Nine days — that’s a lot of courtesy to give someone.”

    Taylor said the grand jury did not hear the opinion of the KSP investigator and refused to take testimony from Turley and Morris."

    So you state there is video evidence but the KSP investigator stated the video was unable to provide any video evidence. Have you seen actual video evidence? Is there another report out there that details any of this by a news source.

    I would point out I agree that the charge against Turley should be dropped and I believe the KSP agree with that. Based on this article I am not sure there is evidence to convict Morris of anything, and if there is it should come out in the trial if they proceed against Turley.
    “Civil Wars happen when the victimized are armed. Genocide happens when they are not.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMcPhe44 View Post
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    Where are you getting 90 days? The article says 9 days. Are you getting information elsewhere?

    "The interview between KSP and Morris was conducted nine days after the shooting had happened, Taylor said.

    “The officer had nine days before he was interviewed. How much information was in his possession?” Taylor asked. “Nine days — that’s a lot of courtesy to give someone.”

    Taylor said the grand jury did not hear the opinion of the KSP investigator and refused to take testimony from Turley and Morris."

    So you state there is video evidence but the KSP investigator stated the video was unable to provide any video evidence. Have you seen actual video evidence? Is there another report out there that details any of this by a news source.

    I would point out I agree that the charge against Turley should be dropped and I believe the KSP agree with that. Based on this article I am not sure there is evidence to convict Morris of anything, and if there is it should come out in the trial if they proceed against Turley.

    Apologies . 90 was a typo. Smart phone does that at times and I don't catch it.

    The video doesn't show everything. It does show Morris firing first.

    Morriss admitted firing first.

    By statute in this case Tuley can't be arrested .
    He clearly shot in SD at a police officer who fired on him first when he had broken no law nor offered a threat.

    There is no requirement to allow even a police officer to shoot you when you have done nothing illegal.

    Morris should be in jail now. And no charges were legally allowed to be brought against Tully.

    The fact he was charged, illegally, in the first place speaks volumes about OPD, Morris, and the KSP post investigating.

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