Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 94

Thread: Possible 3rd party in 2020 election?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Rep Power: 5
    Reputation: 3067
    Rep Level: PDF Militia
    jmf552's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 28th, 2016
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,340
    Threads
    66
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    315 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There is no chance of a "runaway " convention of states.

    Honestly not a whole lot would make it thru the ratification process.

    But putting if only one amendment made it thru to atrip the Fed gov of unconstitutional powers it's claimed it would be worth it.

    Might want to check your count again of states calling for a A5.

    May 2018, there were 27 active calls for an A5 specfic to a balanced budget amendment.
    34 states if you count the ones that call for one but not for a bba.
    1 shy.
    If 2A is not even one of the pillars of the COS movement, I am surprised you would be for it. I would not be. If they are not going to strengthen IA and 2A, the whole thing is a sham.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Rep Power: 12
    Reputation: 8971
    Rep Level: PDF Constitution Protector
    Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 27th, 2016
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,262
    Threads
    79
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    978 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If 2A is not even one of the pillars of the COS movement, I am surprised you would be for it. I would not be. If they are not going to strengthen IA and 2A, the whole thing is a sham.
    Its not an election with a platform.
    Nor can a cc be held to just one specfic proposal.

    It cant runaway as some fear because the ratification process is to steep.

    I'm for it because we are quickly moving to a gov that feels it can take people's property, guns , on the basis of rumor.

    That LE should be able to stop and frisk anyonr they want.

    And worse to come.
    Most Americans outside of big cities will not peaceably submit to being stomped on ,homes invaded , property stolen on a whim.

    Anybody wanting at least a chance to avoid something all citizens want to avoid should be praying for Convention of States.

    We simply cannot continue to exist as even the appearance of a,free nation for another decade the way we are headed. And frankly Trump is no help at all . He supports all the above.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Rep Power: 5
    Reputation: 3067
    Rep Level: PDF Militia
    jmf552's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 28th, 2016
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,340
    Threads
    66
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    315 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Its not an election with a platform.
    Nor can a cc be held to just one specfic proposal.

    It cant runaway as some fear because the ratification process is to steep.

    I'm for it because we are quickly moving to a gov that feels it can take people's property, guns , on the basis of rumor.

    That LE should be able to stop and frisk anyonr they want.

    And worse to come.
    Most Americans outside of big cities will not peaceably submit to being stomped on ,homes invaded , property stolen on a whim.

    Anybody wanting at least a chance to avoid something all citizens want to avoid should be praying for Convention of States.

    We simply cannot continue to exist as even the appearance of a,free nation for another decade the way we are headed. And frankly Trump is no help at all . He supports all the above.
    Based on your explanation, I am not only not praying for it, I would be totally against it. You make it sound like a complete crapshoot.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Rep Power: 12
    Reputation: 8971
    Rep Level: PDF Constitution Protector
    Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 27th, 2016
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,262
    Threads
    79
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    978 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Based on your explanation, I am not only not praying for it, I would be totally against it. You make it sound like a complete crapshoot.
    No. Proposed amendments have to be ratified by such a large number of states to pass its far from a crap shoot.

    Look I'm getting old. Not everything but most of what I held dear is dead.
    So if everyone wants to excuse Trump as the savior of our rights that's ok. He's not . But I'm past caring.
    And if irrational fear of the last option we have to save this nation from imploading again as it has once in the past won't let an A5 happen, I'm almost past caring about that.

    If waiting until active physical resistance or bowing to tyrants is all that's left , personally I've less to lose than most and am ok with that too.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Rep Power: 8
    Reputation: 4877
    Rep Level: PDF Militia
    BMcPhe44's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 28th, 2016
    Location
    Oilfields of West Texas
    Posts
    2,622
    Threads
    66
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    864 Post(s)
    Actually the site shows as I said. 15 where both state houses have approved CoS, 7 where one house has voted affirmative, and 12 other states that have active legislation. They don't mention such things as the active movement in some of the affirmative states to rescind their previous vote to affirm and the growing movement that is concerned with who is backing the CoS with large amounts of money. A large number of billionaires, some with dubious agendas, have been pumping large amounts of money into the movement. There is general consensus that the effort has hit a wall and beginning to crumble.

    Just exactly how do you think this convention, with one of its stated agendas being to reign in Federal Government with no mention of doing away with all of the various gun control acts passed over the years, will somehow restore the purity of the 2nd? In fact I can name 7 of those states that wil pull their active legislation or will never sign on to support the CoS if doing away with NFA is even mentioned as part of the convention's agenda.

    If a CoS ever does happen it will not be with the goal of restoring the 2nd but rather the narrow efforts to enforce fiscal restraint, term limits and "some" restriction of the federal government in regards to mandating laws that the COTUS does not give them, but rather leaves the power to the states to pass them. In my opinion there won't be but a very few (if any) States that will rescind laws such as the NFA. Well over 50% of the voting public either supports these infringements, or even if they don't, they support things such as abortion, unions and buying votes more than they support the 2nd.

    Again doesn't mean I would not support a CoS, but I am a realist about the possible outcomes.
    “Civil Wars happen when the victimized are armed. Genocide happens when they are not.”
    ― A.E. Samaan

  6. #36
    Senior Member Rep Power: 8
    Reputation: 4877
    Rep Level: PDF Militia
    BMcPhe44's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 28th, 2016
    Location
    Oilfields of West Texas
    Posts
    2,622
    Threads
    66
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    864 Post(s)
    Nor can a cc be held to just one specfic proposal.
    Not what the Constitutional experts are saying, in fact they say exactly the opposite. The scope would be narrow and limited. The agendas would have to be clearly specific on what they want to do and what the states voted on.
    “Civil Wars happen when the victimized are armed. Genocide happens when they are not.”
    ― A.E. Samaan

  7. #37
    Senior Member Rep Power: 12
    Reputation: 8971
    Rep Level: PDF Constitution Protector
    Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 27th, 2016
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,262
    Threads
    79
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    978 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BMcPhe44 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Actually the site shows as I said. 15 where both state houses have approved CoS, 7 where one house has voted affirmative, and 12 other states that have active legislation. They don't mention such things as the active movement in some of the affirmative states to rescind their previous vote to affirm and the growing movement that is concerned with who is backing the CoS with large amounts of money. A large number of billionaires, some with dubious agendas, have been pumping large amounts of money into the movement. There is general consensus that the effort has hit a wall and beginning to crumble.

    Just exactly how do you think this convention, with one of its stated agendas being to reign in Federal Government with no mention of doing away with all of the various gun control acts passed over the years, will somehow restore the purity of the 2nd? In fact I can name 7 of those states that wil pull their active legislation or will never sign on to support the CoS if doing away with NFA is even mentioned as part of the convention's agenda.

    If a CoS ever does happen it will not be with the goal of restoring the 2nd but rather the narrow efforts to enforce fiscal restraint, term limits and "some" restriction of the federal government in regards to mandating laws that the COTUS does not give them, but rather leaves the power to the states to pass them. In my opinion there won't be but a very few (if any) States that will rescind laws such as the NFA. Well over 50% of the voting public either supports these infringements, or even if they don't, they support things such as abortion, unions and buying votes more than they support the 2nd.

    Again doesn't mean I would not support a CoS, but I am a realist about the possible outcomes.
    That would be your opinion. But your states calling for a Convention of States is off by quite a bit.

    Polls tell nothing but what the polster wants.
    And you would have no more idea what states will do if the repealing all gun laws is proposed.

    Here is what conservatives can't accept.

    If Trump has ran as a conservative in the primary Cruz would have been nominated.

    But he didn't . He never said he was a conservative, just a democrat that became a republican.
    He was elected because he was seen as an outsider , he ran as a champion of constitutional rights. He won because his winning was supposed to send the message ,fly over country has had enough of rights grabbing lying pieces of trash in the Fed. And SCOTUS.

    Trump turned out to be anything but what he ran as.

    He can't pull that wool hood out again.
    He may be elected again. Its far from certain.
    People are fed up, Trump wasn't what he claimed to be.

    As I said . I've come to the point I am sick of the whole thing. No matter who gets in of the two parties the result will be the same. Just different smoke and mirrors.

    If we can't break the 2 party stranglehold , soon, convention of states or otherwise, this nation will be Venezula or worse in a decade.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Rep Power: 10
    Reputation: 5389
    Rep Level: PDF American
    GRCarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 1st, 2016
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    3,142
    Threads
    52
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    774 Post(s)
    Considering all that is happening with Biden's son, Hunter (Ukrainian and Chinese connections that also tie into Biden senior), Biden could get kicked out of the race. I expect that would leave that old white guy, the socialist millionaire, Sanders with the Democratic nomination. Clinton would have a stroke, but there might well be a strong progressive third party try. And there is always Howard Schultz.

    This could turn out to be a real interesting race.
    TANSTAAFL - "Moon is a Harsh Mistress"
    OldVet, 30 March 2018: "But being the agreeable sort, I agree."

  9. #39
    Senior Member Rep Power: 12
    Reputation: 8971
    Rep Level: PDF Constitution Protector
    Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 27th, 2016
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,262
    Threads
    79
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    978 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BMcPhe44 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not what the Constitutional experts are saying, in fact they say exactly the opposite. The scope would be narrow and limited. The agendas would have to be clearly specific on what they want to do and what the states voted on.

    There are no "constitutional experts " concerning a Convention of States. Since the birth of the nation there has never been one to produce "experts"

    However had there been one the civil war might well have been avoided.

    History tends to repeat itself.

    Take your pick.
    One thing is as certain as the daybreak. Voting isn't going to get it done.

    No matter who gets elected to what , as long as we are a,two party system, it only gets worse.

    More infringement, more oppresion, more outright gov theviery and yes murders.

    So we are left with a Convention of states, or what this nations people historically have done when gov gets too big for its britches. I know the choice Id RATHER be used.
    But it's not up to me or the millions like me. Only the end result is.
    Last edited by Ghost1958; May 13th, 2019 at 06:00 PM.

  10. #40
    Moderator of the Universe Rep Power: 20
    Reputation: 23836
    Rep Level: PDF Silver Member
    jeanlouise's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 27th, 2016
    Location
    In Wild and Wonderful
    Posts
    9,748
    Threads
    387
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    2197 Post(s)

    I don't think a CoS would be a bad thing and I don't think it would be a run-away, but I don't think it will ever happen because of the restrictions and hills it has to climb (vote wise).

    It came up in the WV Legislature this year but didn't make it through the House. There was significant support but not quite enough.

    It's the only way we'll ever see Term Limits because there is very little support for it once people get elected.

    A CoS can ONLY address the 3 things that have been mentioned, it can't run-away. The worse that can happen is that the issues get voted down.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Rep Power: 12
    Reputation: 8971
    Rep Level: PDF Constitution Protector
    Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 27th, 2016
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,262
    Threads
    79
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    978 Post(s)
    Personally I think term limits are a horrible idea.

    You get a good person in office you can't keep him thre.

    And it's historically proven fact there is nothing more dangerous to our rights than a politician in office with no re election to worry about.

    There is nothing to keep any amendment from being proposed once a COS is called.
    But the high hurdle of an amendment being ratified prevents a runaway convention.

    I would imagine SCOTUS would be seriously limited in power as a result .

  12. #42
    Moderator of the Universe Rep Power: 20
    Reputation: 23836
    Rep Level: PDF Silver Member
    jeanlouise's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 27th, 2016
    Location
    In Wild and Wonderful
    Posts
    9,748
    Threads
    387
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    2197 Post(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Personally I think term limits are a horrible idea.

    You get a good person in office you can't keep him thre.

    And it's historically proven fact there is nothing more dangerous to our rights than a politician in office with no re election to worry about.

    There is nothing to keep any amendment from being proposed once a COS is called.
    But the high hurdle of an amendment being ratified prevents a runaway convention.

    I would imagine SCOTUS would be seriously limited in power as a result .

    I can't think of one politician that I couldn't do without after say...10 or 12 years in office.

    I can think of a lot that have outlived their welcome but keep getting re-elected because the incumbent has a big advantage.

    Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Robert Byrd, Joe Biden, John McCain all come immediately to mind. Reid finally quit but Byrd and McCain were there till the end and I don't see Pelosi or Biden going anywhere soon.

    Politics was never meant to be a life time career. They were supposed to go to DC, serve their country for a couple of terms and go home.
    Last edited by jeanlouise; May 13th, 2019 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Typo

  13. #43
    Senior Member Rep Power: 12
    Reputation: 8971
    Rep Level: PDF Constitution Protector
    Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 27th, 2016
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,262
    Threads
    79
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    978 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jeanlouise View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I can't think of one politician that I couldn't do without after say...10 or 12 years in office.

    I can think of a lot that have outlived they welcome but keep getting re-elected because the incumbent has a big advantage.

    Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Robert Byrd, Joe Biden, John McCain all come immediately to mind. Reid finally quit but Byrd and McCain were there till the end and I don't see Pelosi or Biden going anywhere soon.

    Politics was never meant to be a life time career. They were supposed to go to DC, serve their country for a couple of terms and go home.

    Agreed. And the people can vote them out.

    But the threat of not being elected tends to keep them honest to a point.

    A lame duck that holds any office with much power is more dangerous to our rights than any terrorist group.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Rep Power: 8
    Reputation: 4877
    Rep Level: PDF Militia
    BMcPhe44's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 28th, 2016
    Location
    Oilfields of West Texas
    Posts
    2,622
    Threads
    66
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    864 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There are no "constitutional experts " concerning a Convention of States. Since the birth of the nation there has never been one to produce "experts"
    Once the COTUS was put to paper there have been experts, those who understand the wording, those who have studied history to the extent that they are capable of determining what the Framers meant when they wrote the words, with some level of knowledge. Their degree of accuracy would be considerably higher than the opinions of two guys on a gun blog discussing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    However had there been one the civil war might well have been avoided.
    Possibly. Some tried, including Lincoln (according to Mark Levin), for many of the same reasons that it is presented today and in an effort to avoid bloodshed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    History tends to repeat itself.

    Take your pick.
    History can repeat itself mainly because the people refuse to educate themselves and vote only "for what the Country can do for them."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    One thing is as certain as the daybreak. Voting isn't going to get it done.
    Voting got us where we are and voting can take us back, but only if the people accept responsibility and vow to fix it. Voting for progressives will only make it progressively worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No matter who gets elected to what , as long as we are a,two party system, it only gets worse.

    More infringement, more oppresion, more outright gov theviery and yes murders.
    Two parties is what we have and is certainly better than a one party system if that party is made up of Socialists and Communists, I think history has shown where that ends up. A three party system just picks the winner between the original two parties. A third party like the Libertarians, who support abortion, usually hurts the two main parties equally, until a candidate like Perot convinces enough Republican voters that he represents a Conservative utopia that would: "His commonsense approach to abortion (for it, but reluctantly), education (the only thing he would raise taxes for), the debt ("like the crazy aunt tucked away in the room upstairs nobody talks about"), and taxing the wealthy ("makes no sense for me to pay less of a percentage of my income that other people"), rang true in a season of sour, false notes. He promised a coalition government, using the best minds of both parties. He said he would "get a shovel and clean out the barn." Yes he fooled the people into electing Bill Clinton and gave us an AR ban for our ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So we are left with a Convention of states, or what this nations people historically have done when gov gets too big for its britches. I know the choice Id RATHER be used.
    But it's not up to me or the millions like me. Only the end result is.
    Again, in my opinion, you inflate your numbers.

    “Civil Wars happen when the victimized are armed. Genocide happens when they are not.”
    ― A.E. Samaan

  15. #45
    Senior Member Rep Power: 8
    Reputation: 4877
    Rep Level: PDF Militia
    BMcPhe44's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 28th, 2016
    Location
    Oilfields of West Texas
    Posts
    2,622
    Threads
    66
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    864 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Agreed. And the people can vote them out.

    But the threat of not being elected tends to keep them honest to a point.

    A lame duck that holds any office with much power is more dangerous to our rights than any terrorist group.

    I can assure you that Pelosi, Feinstein, Biden and Schumer are not threatened by being voted out. Term limits is the single best answer to eliminating the Democrat's penchant for buying votes, and the Republicans penchant for not doing what they say they will.

    A lame duck representing a party that has socialist/communists views that holds any office with much power is more dangerous to our rights than any terrorist group, and they are even more dangerous if they aren't lame ducks.
    “Civil Wars happen when the victimized are armed. Genocide happens when they are not.”
    ― A.E. Samaan

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •