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Thread: Now It All Makes Sense

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
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    I dont believe, personally that anyone who makes it the office of President doesn't have some dirty deeds in the closet. I doubt there had ever been a truly honest President since the revolution.

    Carter was likely the most honest man we have ever had to hold that office. He was a terrible president, way in over his head, but I always thought him to be the most honest man to hold the office.

    All that said. We have "tradition" dictating much to much to do with our laws and rights.
    I thought so, too, at the time. I believe that he changed. He has shown more recently, that politically, he has no ethics whatsoever and has supported socialism in and outside of our country. I voted for him, and discovered I voted for an administrative disaster, though ethically one of the best. I made a mistake, voting for high ethics, and poor ability.
    TANSTAAFL - "Moon is a Harsh Mistress"

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RScottie View Post
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    There is zero evidence to support any of the accusations against President Trump. Searching his financial records without probable cause is not right no matter what, and they have no probable cause.
    Other than the security aid being withheld (apparently expressly) for exchange of a "favor" (the investigation into Burisma) that, given Biden Sr.'s involvement as a current competing candidate, could benefit Trump hugely.

    Not that I think it necessarily was a direct trade. Not that I think bolstering Ukraine would have failed to be done if investigations weren't forthcoming (promised). But it sure opened the gate for legitimate concerns and accusations, seeing as how the benefit of negative results (in such an investigation into Burisma) could aid Trump. Irrespective of whether that indeed was his entire goal.

    Anyway. There was concern. Backed by the "favor" aspect in the call, an apparent contingency. And there's the seemingly clear benefit politically. Whether that's enough to impeach, let alone get the bulk of both houses of Congress to concur, is something else. But it certainly was enough to evaluate at the level of Congress. Now, had he simply pushed to have "investigations" get done into corruption, including the long list of long-known existing players in Ukraine, and left it at that, I think he'd have been fine. Instead, he opted to put it as a condition. (Which frosted the Dems to no end, obviously. Not that they really needed an excuse to get "frosty.")
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
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    Other than the security aid being withheld (apparently expressly) for exchange of a "favor" (the investigation into Burisma) that, given Biden Sr.'s involvement as a current competing candidate, could benefit Trump hugely.

    Not that I think it necessarily was a direct trade. Not that I think bolstering Ukraine would have failed to be done if investigations weren't forthcoming (promised). But it sure opened the gate for legitimate concerns and accusations, seeing as how the benefit of negative results (in such an investigation into Burisma) could aid Trump. Irrespective of whether that indeed was his entire goal.

    Anyway. There was concern. Backed by the "favor" aspect in the call, an apparent contingency. And there's the seemingly clear benefit politically. Whether that's enough to impeach, let alone get the bulk of both houses of Congress to concur, is something else. But it certainly was enough to evaluate at the level of Congress. Now, had he simply pushed to have "investigations" get done into corruption, including the long list of long-known existing players in Ukraine, and left it at that, I think he'd have been fine. Instead, he opted to put it as a condition. (Which frosted the Dems to no end, obviously. Not that they really needed an excuse to get "frosty.")
    We know that the Democrats make everything out to be more than it is in regards to President Trump.

    If only they would look at the actions of their own as thoroughly?

    I think President Trump should withhold aid to any country that is taking our aid, laundering it, and giving it back to the sons of our politicians via fake jobs that they are not even qualified for.

    We should not freely give aid to any country. It should always come with strings attached.

    And, in the case of the Ukraine, the fact that the investigation may benefit President Trump is easily acceptable as it would benefit We the People even more to have light shone on the dirty deals of Biden and others.
    "We the people, are the rightful masters of both the Congress, and the Courts. Not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who have perverted it." ~ Abraham Lincoln

  4. #34
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    People keep forgetting that Biden hadn't entered the race yet.

    And that Biden was a minor part of this whole call.

    And that by treaty signed by President Clinton, Ukraine and the U.S. are to cooperate with each other on going after corruption that connects the two countries.

    And what about President Obama withholding aid to Ukraine, in violation of our treaties, to curry favor with Russia?
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRCarry View Post
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    People keep forgetting that Biden hadn't entered the race yet.

    And that Biden was a minor part of this whole call.

    And that by treaty signed by President Clinton, Ukraine and the U.S. are to cooperate with each other on going after corruption that connects the two countries.

    And what about President Obama withholding aid to Ukraine, in violation of our treaties, to curry favor with Russia?
    Actually, I thought the whole issue is (at least IMO) is Trump investigating the Bidens for political reasons. That is really the point. Let us suppose they are guilty of wrong doing...what was Trump's motive?

    I do believe he wants them investigated for his own political advantage.

    ETA

    And he was using US foreign policy as a tool to achieve that
    Last edited by Siam; December 4th, 2019 at 01:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRCarry View Post
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    People keep forgetting that Biden hadn't entered the race yet.

    And that Biden was a minor part of this whole call.

    And that by treaty signed by President Clinton, Ukraine and the U.S. are to cooperate with each other on going after corruption that connects the two countries.

    And what about President Obama withholding aid to Ukraine, in violation of our treaties, to curry favor with Russia?
    What do you mean Biden hadn't entered the race yet? I thought the phone call was in July of this year. May be wrong but that's what I remember reading.
    Pardon me, Sir, for this difference of opinion. my personal interest in such questions is entirely extinct; but not my wishes for the longest possible continuance of our government on itís pure principles.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRCarry View Post
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    People keep forgetting that Biden hadn't entered the race yet.

    And that Biden was a minor part of this whole call.

    And that by treaty signed by President Clinton, Ukraine and the U.S. are to cooperate with each other on going after corruption that connects the two countries.

    And what about President Obama withholding aid to Ukraine, in violation of our treaties, to curry favor with Russia?
    Biden declared his entering the 2020 election on 25 April. The phone call was 25 July.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siam View Post
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    Biden declared his entering the 2020 election on 25 April. The phone call was 25 July.
    Thanks for the correction. Here's an additional datum. Biden publicly declared his extortion before the first phone call.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlyric View Post
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    What do you mean Biden hadn't entered the race yet? I thought the phone call was in July of this year. May be wrong but that's what I remember reading.
    Thanks for the correction.
    TANSTAAFL - "Moon is a Harsh Mistress"

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRCarry View Post
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    Thanks for the correction. Here's an additional datum. Biden publicly declared his extortion before the first phone call.
    Nice recovery

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